MESBG VS 40k 10th Edition - First Experience

As you maybe read, I dipped my toes into the 40k system and really enjoyed it. I even prioritized painting my new miniatures over painting my Easterlings. It felt wrong at the beginning (after all I procrastinated my Easterling project already for a long time) but in the end, my motivation currently is with 40k and why not enjoy and go along with it? ;)

I also joined multiple FB groups and Discord servers, dedicated to 40k and AdMech. And while painting my Kataphrons and reading through all the stuff, I started thinking about the differences between the system and playstyle of  MESBG and 40k. Some interesting comparisons came up and I thought it could be interesting to share my thoughts with you ;)

I structured this post into different topics, where in each I will talk about both systems.

Remark

As mentioned in my previous post, my 40k experience so far  results from four games of Combat Patrol and reading up a lot. And even though there is basically no difference in rules to bigger games, I am aware that the dynamic might be different. After all, beyond 500 points there are a lot of expensive toys with damage output that does not exist in CP. So read my comparison with this detail in mind ;)

Interaction on the table

MESBG

A very good podcast I enjoy listening, found a good description: MESBG is chess with dice. I personally would add, that it is a game where a big part is about preventing your opponent from doing things or minimizing his chances to utilize his strengths. I might even argue, that you probably interact (or think about) more with the opponents army, then with your own.

This is not necessarily a bad thing but a certain style of game you have to like. 

See, it is not enough to bring your big bang hero to the table and expect that e.g. an Elendil or King Elessar, will automatically kill a lot of things. Or that a Witchking will dominate the field with magic. Between putting these miniatures on the table and doing with them what they are good at, a gazillion of things can happen and conditions need to be met. And most of them are dictated by your opponent and not by yourself. 

It is also quite common in MESBG, that a player tries to do something or invests resources and nothing happens.

To cast magic, you need:

• A target that is worth picking. 
• A spell that is useful for the given situation
• To be in range
• Enough will points
• Succeed in casting it
• The target to fail its resist or not have own Will points left

Shooting can be lethal or do nothing depending a lot on terrain. Even shooty Elf or Harad armies, do not guarantee a lot of ranged kills. Like with most things in MESBG, it is better to have a lot of dice than fewer ones with better chances. Which is also why Harad (with 50 % bow limit and potentially poison but average shoot values) is a lot more lethal than e.g. Lothlorien or Thranduils Halls.

Combat depends heavily on who has the initiative, better position and movement abilities.

Control zones can be hard to keep track of and a glorious opportunity to finally push through a battle line, quickly vanishes when your opponent did clever positioning or you missed a detail when starting to attack and now there is not enough space or another zone, you cannot pass through.

Charge bonuses are always good and some factions live or die by them.

Oh and lets not forget the glorious courage tests, where maybe > 50 % of your army will do nothing because they fail to charge frighting enemies.

Heroic actions can disrupt all of these very strict paths but even here, it can be frustrating because using up your resources, gives you only a chance to change the course of battle. Its far from guaranteed. 

You lost four times in a row the initiative and now you want to use a heroic move by spending Might? Well, if the opponent does the same and you lose the roll-off, your spent resources went straight to the toilette. Of course you also drained something off your opponent but still its hard to see the positive side of this if on the other hand it means that your battle line got encircled and crushed because you could not move as you wanted.

So don't get me wrong: It can be very rewarding to be a good strategist. To plan both on strategic and tactical level. To play a game of minds and bluffs. And all that does not mean it cannot be intense or fast.

But if someone always just plays tactical versus someone being strategic, the latter one probably will have the edge, unless the dice roll very good/bad.

But in my opinion so much blocking, denying and having to do dice tests, can leave a bitter taste. Also realizing that your opponent basically brought you into a position, where your only choices are to choose the possibly least bad option, can be frustrating.

40k

Where MESBG is like two generals, silent and carefully moving their pieces over a terrain board, always having to keep in  mind the greater strategic situation and looking out for tactical opportunities - 40k is more like a Hollywood cliche clash of two armies. Both sides run screaming into each other, shooting their big guns, wielding over-sized weapons, all the while there is epic music and explosions in the background.

Where is MESBG a lot about using the weaknesses of your opponents army and preventing is good pieces from working, 40k is about playing to your own strengths and smash with your full strength into the enemy.

It is very seldom that a unit cannot do something when its your turn or even the other ones. This of course is tied to the fact, that in a Sci-Fi system, there is a lot more focus an shooting, which is also a significantly more effective than in a medieval based tabletop.

But it also results from the rule set which is very streamlined. There are no in the way tests. You can most of the time shoot through enemies behind other enemies. You can shoot through your own units. And you can shoot at enemies which are in cover partially. Only completely being out of sight is safe. Unless there are no "towering" units ;)

But what surprised me the most is that even though a player works through his/her entire turn with all its phases before the other one  can do that, it still felt a lot less oppressive than having the Initiative in MESBG. This stems from the fact of having always the possibility to use Strategems (special commands that can let do specific units, specific special actions - both as active and passive player) and that the Fight phase is in each turn twice + that the passive player is the first one to act.

Wounding is done via an very easy system which uses the difference between the incoming strength and the receiving defense. So you really only need these two values and an understanding of the difference system, instead of always having to lookup a big table like in MESBG.

Most of the special rules regarding damage, are on the weapons and not the units. This makes it very easy to remember and it is not necessary to have a deep knowledge of the opponents faction codex.

Last but not least, 40k is immensely more lethal than MESBG. There is always some accomplishment to achieve and your opponent will remove killed units as fast as you will do with your own. 

All this combines into a very intense and fast gaming experience, which (at least for me) really created the feeling to be on an ever evolving battlefield with a lot of action happening.

Buying and availability

MESBG

Buying your MESBG miniatures is sadly not straightforward and can be quite an obstacle as a new player.

First of, not all factions or miniatures of a faction are available on the web-store. See, MESBG is a niche system and therefore not a priority when its about having capacity in the production of GW. So there is a rotation of what is produced. A current production set can stay for months or years and nobody knows when the next rotation is gonna happen. Also it is always possible that things from the rotation are not available for some time - e.g. when the reserve is sold out and there was no reproduction yet.

Buying from other retailers than GW is possible and you might even get stuff that is currently or longer not available from them. But how big the assortment of MESBG will be, can vary wildly between them. Some might have nearly the full range, others may have nothing but the most basic stuff from the big four factions (MT, Rohan, Isengard, Mordor) or even just a few heroes.

The used material is completely inconsistent and ranges from metal, plastic, failcast or FW resin. There are pure metal or FW factions, the rest is most of the time a mix.

Depending on your desired faction, Forgeworld may or may not be a boon, bane or irrelevant for you. Some key miniatures (and with them certain playstyles) are locked behind the FW paywall. There is a trend that very fancy, new stuff, is always FW. Here and there we get a new plastic hero. But overall its pretty wild.

Oh and just because a profile or weapon for something exists, does not mean the same for a miniature for it.  Various factions have access to banners but no official miniatures. Or mounted versions of heroes (Elendil, Thorin, etc).

A good option to circumstance this is to switch to alternative miniatures. There are a ton of contestants, especially for limited or not available stuff from GW (e.g. Arnor). They are to around 90 % in the realm of 3d printing (very few of them producing metal). You can find nearly everything and (depending a bit on your taste) the quality and design is very good.

The only drawback here is there are so many, that it is again hard to keep track of and find/know what exists.

40k

Warhammer 40k is very straightforward in this point. Plastic is king and there is always the full range available. Everything that has a datasheet, is there and the kits contain always all the options that exist.

Contrary to MESBG, you have no reason to ever visit FW. Their 40k models are mostly (or 100% ?) only there for collectors who wanna put them in vitrines or use them in campaigns/friendly games. They are not allowed in competitive play or tournaments. 

Pricing

MESBG

How expensive collecting can be, strongly depends on the faction. Full metal armies like Khand are exorbitantly expensive - a 500 points army, will cost you over 500 €. FW Iron Hills will top even that.

On the other end, you can be set with below 200 € with e.g. Thrors Army.

At least for the big four, there is a huge second-hand market. You can probably get enough Uruks for a huge Isengard army, for below 100 €.

40k

Here too it depends on the faction. The more apart the €/points ratio is, the more expensive it will be to collect the army. Genestealer cults and Tyranids are in the upper range for example, because you can field a lot of models but the boxes are expensive compared to how many points they offer.

Most factions have a lot of offers on the second-hand market and you can save good money. 

Support and supply of new content by GW

MESBG

If you did not suspect it by now, lets clear this up: MESBG is a niche system of GW and it does show. In the current version it was common that we received roughly a new expansion book per year, which was accompanied by a few new miniatures and ways to play. And that is a ton more then in the years of the old version between the Hobbit movies and now.

The number of articles on the Warhammer about MESBG is around ten per year. An FAQ/Errata shows up two times a year.

The current version exists since 2018. Since then, our rules never received a big overhaul and instead mostly stayed intact, with just a clarification here or a nerf there.

So if you are craving for new content and miniatures, you will probably be disappointed.

On the other hand, quite a lot of people in MESBG (including me) mostly happy with this state. The rules are elegant and are carefully adapted by GW. We have a very big range but it is at the same time, very easy to start a new army. So new stuff is not  as necessary as in 40k.

Additionally it means that there is no Meta chasing and you can really concentrate on delving deep into your faction, without having to fear that it might be completely useless in some months.

40k

I admit I was a bit overwhelmed at first by the amount of News and new stuff that is pumped out in 40k.

Articles and news are released multiple times a week. There a timetables for things to be released. You know when your factions will receive new stuff (roughly, mostly).

Point values and rules are adapted multiple times a year, maybe even just two months after something got released.

There is ALWAYS stuff for you to buy and it is seldom that a production shortage will prevent you from spending money.

The big amount of money and people working for this system is impossible to not notice.

There definitely is a Meta chase - a combo that rocked multiple tournaments, might be gone the next month. That being said, you are course not forced to join the chase - you can play a lot of things outside of competitive.

Conclusion

This was just a scratch on the surface for this subject and I might know more the longer I play both systems.

I hope my text about MESBG did not sound too harsh. I love the system and enjoy playing it as well as collecting/painting miniatures.

It is just that 40k is a pleasant contrast to it. Not only in genre but also in speed, models and lore.

I hope it was an interesting read of my opinion piece and maybe gave you an idea how the other "world" looks like.

The Castellan keeps his watch and happy hobbying until the next time =)